What He Said

[bloodyrosemccoy]

From xkcd:



This goes well with issendai’s Random Apostrophe Proclamation. I did propose an amendment for us conlang nerds, but I try to be minimal in my approach to random words tossed in when an English word would do just fine. Fellow conlang enthusiasts, unless we are writing specifically for each other, we must make use of appendices. Nice to think they’re good for something.

Comments

[spotweld.livejournal.com]

Tolkien get extra special exemption since he pretty much constructed whole languages.

However I am of the option that any fiction that creates words just to plod through a forced twist on the Sapir–Whorf hypothesis probably deserves a kick in the pants.

[shadesofmauve]

I'd point out that Tolkien really used his languages in the Lord of the Rings for the development of proper names. He calls a sword a sword; even shadowfax is just a horse. Despite the quantity of words he made up, I don't think he breaks the spirit of the rule above, because he's not replacing perfectly serviceable english with his own creations.

Eg, If Kingsfoil was another name for sage, it would be ridiculous. but since Kingsfoil=!SuperMagicHealingPlant! it's okay it has it's own name.

I think Ursula Le Guin wrote about just this issue in one of her essays on writing, but I'm not sure where to put my finger on it.

[gwalla.livejournal.com]

The Turkey City Lexicon has the term "call a rabbit a smeerp":

A cheap technique for false exoticism, in which common elements of the real world are re-named for a fantastic milieu without any real alteration in their basic nature or behavior. "Smeerps" are especially common in fantasy worlds, where people often ride exotic steeds that look and act just like horses.

I recommend reading through the Lexicon. It's both handy and hilarious.

[queenlyzard.livejournal.com]

Most excellent, thanks! Have you read Diana Wynne Jones' "Tough Guide to Fantasyland"?

[fenmere.livejournal.com]

I'm currently reading Anathem by Neal Stephenson. If I find that sentence in the book, I'm going to throw the book at the author of XKCD. Unfortunately, this seems like a strong possibility!

[shadesofmauve]

It's not in there. Stephenson is still a stupdendous badass; any use of language that seems deliberatley obtuse in the beginning of the book will make brilliant, perfect sense about 3/4 of the way through. Maybe 2/3rds. I read it a month ago (Boo. Yah!), and had to keep reassuring Erik of the same thing when he read it next, which is hard to do without spoilers.

Let us say: No, it is not earth! Yes, language differences signify that, and yes, it is important.

[bean-bunny.livejournal.com]

And this is a major reason I hate Lord of the Rings. *pisses off everyone in a five mile radius*

[10cents.livejournal.com]

Not EVERYONE--I'm with you on that, at least when it comes to the books.

[padparadscha.livejournal.com]

The movies were better. *joins you*

Hear my nerdy linguist opinion, too! The languages he made up were very thorough, and I really gotta say, the way he managed to work on the way they changed over time was impressive. But I don't actually like the way they sound at all--they seem thin, and a little whiny. The coolest sounding language he made up was the Black Speech, which was meant to sound ugly.

[kadharonon.livejournal.com]

It depends on how thoroughly the author manages to immerse you in their world, and the context for a lot of it.

Science-context has always been a lot easier for me to latch onto than fantasy-context, except in cases where they go COMPLETELY overboard. (But I really, really loved the Chanur books, which had a lot of foreign vocabulary. And the Dinner.)

...actually, on this note, I find it kind of amusing that every time one of the four from the Circle uses the word "kid", or at least the first time in a book, it's followed by an explanation that it's not meant in the sense of a baby goat, but is street-slang. Even though the reader knows perfectly well what it means...

[cjtremlett.livejournal.com]

I've been thinking about this. I gave up on Anathem after a couple of pages because it was so irritating. But plenty of books I do read and like have their own vocabulary. I think it has a lot to do with how intrusive it is, and how the new words are woven into the story.

[10cents.livejournal.com]

I can't even begin to express how much I agree with this comic. If a word is too odd-looking to my eyes, my brain automatically gives up and turns it into a random, staticy blank, and it's really quite annoying to read a sentence where the narrative just drops out periodically like a bad satellite signal. I understand that some people find it fun to make these things up, and I understand the occasionally it's necessary for a fictional word to appear, and I understand that not all books are targetted towards people who read like me, but oh, do I hate it when it's overused.

[padparadscha.livejournal.com]

I think that's common with readers--I know I'm the same way. I try to avoid that with my alien names, and make them at least somewhat easy for a person to say or at least read without tripping over the oddities.

This is tough, since I have a lot of characters with very offbeat languages with clicks and whatnot. You know Lwefir--her full name is ridiculously long and contains diacritics and punctuation. I said it ONCE. After that, I stuck with "Lwefir," which is unusual, but I hope not something a reader would trip on as much as, say, a frequent recurrence of the name !QrzALgh or whatever. (Speaking of naturalizing, I have decided I use "rumuqilu" enough to do away with the diacritics on the u's in the stories.) It's only when highlighting something that I'll go all fancy language on your ass.

This is why nerds like me are usually fine with some notes in the back of the book. We know most people aren't interested in the intricacies of the characters' languages. Toss us a minor plot point once in a while and we'll be happy.

[ellixis.livejournal.com]

When fictioning, I only make words up when there is no appropriate English alternative. After all, while my characters may be speaking in another language, I am translating into English because I and my audience read in English, and it's pretty pointless to throw in random words that I then have to explain.

This also holds for purple prose. Ordinary adjectives will do. There are plenty of those, and usually the purple adjectives don't mean quite the same thing. If there's a word that means just exactly what I'm trying to say, however ...

This is also my workaround for being fantastically bad at conlanging. I know I'm not much good at consistent fantasy languages, so I don't do it because I don't want to do it wrong.

[padparadscha.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it's kinda hard to stay away from when you're making up a new world--after all, otherwise what's the point of having that new world? The trouble arises when you swamp someone with stuff that's hard to read, or use an alternative for a perfectly good English word. And often even when I do use a made-up word, it's a creative rearrangement of English--something that you can easily guess atand isn't hard to read over and over.

Hitting an unfamiliar word is the same feeling as stumbling. I try to avoid that.

[enigmania.livejournal.com]

Clockwork Orange!

I'm looking forward to Anathem, but I have to finish System of the World first.

[queenlyzard.livejournal.com]

Nice. Although "Cats Cradle" kinda ruins the curve...