UPMBD For Short

[bloodyrosemccoy]

Rewatching the Harry Potter movies, not in anticipation of the new one, but rather because I need a Rifftrax fix and really don’t feel like watching Eragon or The Matrix, well, ever again.* And I gotta admit, I can see why I abandoned it six books and four movies in. Underneath all that whimsy, I can’t escape the way the series boils down to a perfect example of the genre I call “Unlikable People Making Bad Decisions.”

Actually, some of my favorite movies are in that genre. Cloverfield, Paranormal Activity, and I suppose you could put Alien in that category as well, though I rather like most of the characters in those movies, up to and including Private William “GAME OVER MAN” Hudson. But the thing is, it’s because you’re not required to like the characters to enjoy the movie. In Harry Potter, you are supposed to like at least some of the characters, and that’s where I’m tapped out. (The same problem keeps me from enjoying the Unlikable People Making Bad Decisions shows my sister and mom enjoy, such as Private Practice and Desperate Housewives.) Characters determined to make the worst possible decision at any given moment, who are so exceedingly touchy that essentially the taunt of “Your mom!” induces any of them to homicidal rampages, are not characters I can really like.

Add to that the completely arbitrary nature of the magical world, and the way EVERY SINGLE TEACHER seems to be actively trying to get their students killed,*** and I find myself wondering what I did see in the Harry Potter stories.

I am enjoying the riffing of them, though. Especially since Mike, Kevin, and Bill have made a running joke of the reckless endangerment wizards and witches seem to put their children into at all times. But alas, I have run out of Harry Potter riffs for now, and will have to turn elsewhere for my mockery.

Hmm. I wonder if Michael Sheen makes an appearance as Count Fabulous in Eclipse …


*Actually, I got back on the Rifftrax kick while letting my current bout of Alien obsession run its course. I’d exhausted the number of times I could watch Alien and Aliens, then watch them again with audio commentaries,** without feeling just a little repetitive. Plus, anyone doing John Hurt impressions makes me giggle. (“I remember … doing something stupid … then something else stupid …”)

**I have long suspected that commentaries are designed for the obsessive nerd who doesn’t want to feel like they’ve had the damn movie on a constant loop for a week. It’s totally different this time! There are people talking about the movie!

***Except for Snape. The only one whose loyalties you’re supposed to question is the only one who’d shove himself between a werewolf and three children he can’t stand. Snape, like Raistlin, is a character I love in a franchise I really don’t like. Yeah, yeah, have at me, internet.

Comments

[mis-creation.livejournal.com]

Oh my gods, THANK YOU!

I get blasted every time I talk about the reasons I don't like Harry Potter. Even when I emphasize these are my reasons and I'm not saying they can't like it.

Given that I only read the first four, that is all I comment on. But for me it all boils down to: I don't think it's that spectacular. The world-building is not that interesting (basically our world, with magic!). The magic system is, quite frankly, a joke. The characters are uninteresting, and, as you pointed out, unlikeable. The plot is same old, "Special chosen one fights evil and suffers prettily for it, ultimately triumphs over evil and lives HEA".

I get that for many people these books define their adolescence, and most of them love them so fervently I can't say anything negative for fear of being attacked.

But I will be so very glad when it's freaking over.

[padparadscha.livejournal.com]

Actually, it defined my adolescence somewhat, too, since I read it just before it got REALLY big 'round these parts. I liked the first few well enough, but I got really, really sick of everyone going nuts over it.

What did it for me wasn't so much how the series started as how it failed to really progress--the characters weren't so much uninteresting to me as downright obnoxious, and they never get past the obnoxious part. The ones I liked were the side characters, really. But mostly my problem is the same one I have with sitcoms: the overwhelming urge to scream "THAT IS A BAD IDEA!", "LEARN FROM YOUR MISTAKES!", or "COMMUNICATE, YOU IDIOTS!" at the characters. ETA: And the magic system got weirder and more unwieldy as it went along.

And that's not even getting into the fact that half the time Harry winds up making things WORSE because of that. I would be willing to accept that as a cool literary device in a "best-laid plans of mice and men" sort of way, except he rarely laid his plans very well in the first place.

In conclusion, if you want kids learning magic, I recommend Tiffany Aching, Circle of Magic, or even Diane Duane's barely coherent but bizarrely awesome Young Wizards instead.

[mis-creation.livejournal.com]

Yeah, everything I heard about post-GoF books didn't make me want to read them. And everyone I know keeps trying to convince me I should. I keep coming back with CoM and say, "It's really good! And more interesting! And more thought-out world-building! And a better magic system!"

That reminds me! I've been meaning to re-read the Young Wizards (I stopped at the one where Kit went away because they fought, or something. I have abandonment issues and didn't want to read about it).

I got the weirdest looks from my writing group when I tried to express my frustration with willy-nilly magic systems. Most of them seemed to think the whole point was that it was willy-nilly, and I kept trying to tell them that it should have rules and a system and logic. They all thought I was nuts...

[padparadscha.livejournal.com]

I liked the attempt to make "Loony" Luna Lovegood sound crazy in later books. After five years of accepting any old bullshit people about gillyweed or garden gnomes, why dismiss her belief in nargles?

I need to reread Young Wizards, too. I have to admit, their magic system is nuts, but I like it for its crazy scenarios and also the way wizards use jargon. And it still seems a little more like there ARE rules, at least ...

[westrider.livejournal.com]

I also need to re-read those Diane Duane books again. I remember really liking the first three at least, when I was a kid. I also remember that it did seem like there was some sort of system to the magic, even if it was never made even remotely clear to the reader.

[pixel39.livejournal.com]

The friend who was feeding me the Young Wizards series can't find the next book, but I have JUST DISCOVERED THEY ARE KINDLE-D!!!!!

I wasn't *planning* on buying any more books, e- or otherwise, but this is something I cannot resist....

My problems with the HP universe are pretty much the same as yours--there is no character growth (and the ones who have potential for growth get killed off), the magic system is stupid and clunky, the main characters are obnoxious and annoying, and at times phenomenally stupid. I read them because her *writing* is reasonably good, even if her characters and world-building suck, and now that I have read them I have no urge to re-read them.

That's actually the most telling--if I want to re-read the story or not. If not, well...

[willowistari.livejournal.com]

I liked it up until book 5, then it just went all downhill for me. :x

[black-rider.livejournal.com]

I made it to GoF, but just couldn't do it.
Snape, however, is the bee's knees, and had a mad schoolboy crush on McGonagall in my own personal headcanon.

[padparadscha.livejournal.com]

Snape's mad schoolboy crushes apparently fuel the series, too.

He just seems like the type to get them.

[westrider.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I read through them all, even re-read them all at least once. But it takes me a while to get critical about stuff that at least moderately entertains me, so it wasn't until later that I really started to get annoyed by the series.

Well, the completely random nature of the magic*, and the idiotic rote-learning pedagogy bugged me from the start, but I was able to get past those for a while.

And yeah, it was mostly the secondary characters who were really good, and regrettably, most of that got from the Movies for length. Ginny was actually pretty cool in book 5, but got almost completely cut from that movie.

*And why does anyone even bother with locks when there's a spell that an 11-year-old can do to unlock basically anything? Given that there is such a spell, why did it get taught, or made readily available? Shouldn't there be common magical locks warded against that spell?

[padparadscha.livejournal.com]

it takes me a while to get critical about stuff that at least moderately entertains me, so it wasn't until later that I really started to get annoyed by the series.

I hear ya there. I often take quite a while to decide if I've even LIKED something.

I GUESS Hermione wasn't taught "Alohomora" in class, but that does seem like a pretty weak defense to even HAVE the spell. You'd think there'd be a lock that could counter it. And the teaching style was definitely old-school British boarding school "shut up and learn" style, which seems ineffective. I have to admit, I started wondering what the point of a wizard school was if magic was so ... random.

I remember Ginny being pretty cool, but I have to say that Neville is my favorite. He was the most interesting character and I actually LIKED him.

[stormteller.livejournal.com]

Yes, Alohomora is advanced magic for that age, and yes, it is possible to enchant locks to counter it. The spell becomes useless after book 3 or so.

[westrider.livejournal.com]

Given that Alohomora is out there, it seems like a spell that's only really usable for malfeasance should be in the Restricted section. Sort of like how it's only legal to own lock-picking equipment if you're in law enforcement or a Locksmith or something. Which admittedly would probably only have slowed Hermione down a little, but still.

I probably would have hung out with Neville if I'd actually been there, and I'm a huge fan of Sam Logan's "Neville Would Have Done It In 4 Books" T-shirt, but as a character, he just didn't click with me for some reason.

[sofish-sasha.livejournal.com]

Whenever I think back on the HP books it becomes ever more obvious that, in the end, my favourite character turned out to be Professor Trelawney. Her descent into madness was one of the more interesting character developments, especially when compared to, say, Tonks, who started out really cool, then spent an entire book Pining For A Man, and became unspeakably dull as a result. Bah, humbug.

I'm probably leaving all 7 books in my parents' storage room when I finally move my beloved bookshelf to my own residence. They take up So Much Space! I need that space for Discworld books! And Neil Gaiman books! And Tove Jansson books! And Michael Chabon books! And Batman/Hellboy/Sandman/The Goon/Escapist/Spirou/Tintin/Valhalla/Gaston/League of Extraordinary Gentlemen/Hellblazer/Promethea/assorted comics!

[padparadscha.livejournal.com]

I hear ya on the storage issues. I got me a Nook just so my books wouldn't crowd me out of my own house.

[shadesofmauve]

I enjoyed Harry Potter... once. I enjoy seeing the movies in the theater with westrider. Once. They were entertaining, though the media-blitz fan-freak-out uber-popularity thing really confused me -- like people thought YA fantasy was a new idea or something. There were a few times I wanted to beat people upside the head with Dealing with Dragons.

The reasons I'm not more into them than that are EXACTLY what you said. Huge examples of the idiot ball, more stupid teen angst than even stupid teens generally want to deal with, 'teachers' who prefer to A) not teach and B) reduce their class-sizes in fatal ways whenever possible...

Though, the reasons I *am* fond of Snape-as-a-character also include "Alan Rickman's Voice Makes Me Drool."

[padparadscha.livejournal.com]

The thing I really hated was display stands with "Mad about Harry? Try THESE!" and a bunch of older, better books. I suppose it's good that Harry was a gateway drug, but I was a bit annoyed that they assumed it was the default for kids.

Alan Rickman makes a darn good Snape, yes.

[stormteller.livejournal.com]

I think you're supposed to understand that they are hormone-riddled teenagers and give them the benefit of the doubt. Since I was not particularly hormone-riddled at that age, I can't relate to this, but but having observed such behaviour in real people, I can at least forgive a somewhat less petty version in fictional one.

Somehow I really like the series. I can't explain why, and I am determined not to be upset by those who feel differently.

But how can you say the teachers are dangerous? Especially when the vast majority of classes are NEVER DESCRIBED or even really referred to in the entire series. Not to mention that in the whole run of books, not one student that we know of is ever permanently injured in the course of their classwork. The bad stuff happens when they run around in between, usually where and when they're not supposed to.

And yes, the magic system is entirely arbitrary; but at least it's consistent.

[padparadscha.livejournal.com]

Oh, I could stand SOME angst, but it got ridiculous around Book 5. And all the way through they had adults, who are supposedly over their hormones, acting with the same lack of inhibition. Hell, the whole Book 2 business started when non-teenager Lucius Malfoy taunted non-teenager Arthur Weasley until the latter decided that the only recourse was to start a brawl in the bookstore. RESPONSIBLE ADULTS, WHERE ARE THEY?

You're right, we don't see much of the actual classes, but the only reason there wasn't a body count at Hogwarts was the grace of JK God Rowling. In Book 2 we get a friggin' MONSTER stalking the students all year, and even in the face of several attacks on students, and it's only by sheer stupid coincidence that Colin and Justin and Hermione were saved from fatal basiliskings. Nobody cancels the Triwizard Tournament or even investigates when the infallible Goblet of Fire's malfunction makes it obvious something is badly amiss. The Defense Against the Dark Arts teachers are either incompetent nitwits or are Lupin, who is a darn good teacher but also happens to FORGET TO TAKE HIS ANTI-PSYCHOTIC MAN-EATING WEREWOLF POTION sometimes. Not to mention the countless times teachers withhold information important to survival from students. And that's just off the top of my head.

I do feel that one can get too neurotic about children's safety, yes. But I do want SOME saftey measures in place, and Hogwarts doesn't even TRY.

[chairman-wow.livejournal.com]

The thing that always bothered me most about the harry Potter world is that they never actually learn anything apart from magic after age 11. No Math or English at least? No? I guess no-one needs to know those if you have magic.

[westrider.livejournal.com]

That's another one that always bothered me. I don't care what you're doing, there are some basics that you really should know.

[mel-redcap.livejournal.com]

*points dramatically*

AHA! You have just explained perfectly how my taste in TV shows etc differs from my husband's! I've never been able to put it into words, but you're right, he likes shows about "Unlikeable People Making Bad Decisions" and I can't stand them! Come to think about it, that's the sort of fanfic I don't like too...

Awesome, thank you. I shall be using this phrase soon, I can tell. :3

[killabee886.livejournal.com]

Add to that the completely arbitrary nature of the magical world, and the way EVERY SINGLE TEACHER seems to be actively trying to get their students killed

Frankly, this seems to be the basis of a lot of children's media. Watch the Disney Channel sometime, it's filled with adults that are clueless and children that will solve the problems through friendship, and talking back to the adults. Seriously, if I tried to say stuff like that to my parents when I was young, or even now for that matter, I would be very much in trouble.

Frankly those teachers shouldn't be too proud of themselves if the series of challenges they set in book 1 was defeated by three 11-year-olds.

That being said, I actually like the Harry Potter series. But I will admit that Harry Potter is the most unlikeable character...ok...maybe Ron... But seriously, how many teenagers would you want to hear about?