Territorial Hobbitses

[bloodyrosemccoy]

I really loved the Lord of the Rings movies--I even think some of the character arcs were better in them--but I can totally understand Christopher Tolkien's issues with them. If I'd spent my entire life in my dad's world and all sorts of other people started barging into it and crashing around, I'd be a bit territorial, too.

This also made me realize that I am far more worried about The Hobbit than I was about LotR, because I am far more invested in Bilbo as a character. He's a brilliant character, possibly the most relatable hero I've ever come across. And he's very hard to get right--I adored the hell out of There and Back Again, Pat Murphy's awesomely insane space opera remix of The Hobbit, but Bailey Beldon is no Bilbo. And I don't know if Martin Freeman could be, either--though if there were somebody I'd want to play him, Freeman's at the top of the list. Right under a magically age-reduced Sir Ian Holm, really. But even with Freeman playing him, it's a question of whether it'll work. We'll just have to see.

Comments

[acrossthelake.livejournal.com]

Okay, I'll admit that I've been kind of hard on Christopher Tolkien's stance to date. The words "hypocritical old purist snob" may have been used. However, I admit I was acting under the assumption at the time that the Tolkien estate got at least a good chunk of the money, so I do feel bad now seeing that they only got 7.5% of anything at all. Suddenly the "publish everything that Tolkien ever wrote" phase that's been happening since The Sil seems a lot less cynical. I still reserve the right to like the movies changes and all, though. And also to not especially mind the huge pop cultural presence they've become.

[padparadscha.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I give him a hard time, too, because he seems a little bit over-territorial--like he doesn't want us actually enjoying it unless we do it HIS way. I really don't agree with him about the movies/pop culture presence--I think it's great--but his grievances are also totally justifiable.

[bunnyjadwiga.livejournal.com]

I don't particularly like territorial copyright heirs myself, but given that within the first 15 minutes of the LOTR films, I was thinking, "you can tell that this is the ultimate result of 40 years of cinematographers and special effects people masturbating themselves to sleep thinking about filming this..." I'm not on their side either.

[sofish-sasha.livejournal.com]

I'm seeing the The Hobbit tomorrow night, starting one minute after midnight. I'm a bit psyched; the last time I went to a midnight premiere was for The Return of the King, and I wasn't dressed up then. Tomorrow night I'll be a hobbit, and I'll see what my hair looks like in curls for the first time. :D (I'm not going barefoot though, hobbit or not, -20 degrees Celsius and snow is no good for anybody's toes.)

I was losing my enthusiasm about the films, and I almost lost it completely when I found out it was going to be three films instead of two - but then I saw this image, and I was all "Hell YES there's that BAMF!Bilbo I've been waiting for!" :D

[padparadscha.livejournal.com]

I am pretty much always a hobbit! Just a very tall one.

I want to see your curly hair, too!

I had the same response--DAMMIT JUST RELEASE A TWELVE HOUR MOVIE AND BE DONE WITH IT. But the image that won me back over was this one. He just looksso beautifully like an exasperated dad. "I go off for FIVE MINUTES and you Dwarves get kidnapped by SPIDERS. RASSERFRASSERGRUMBLE now I gotta stab a bunch of big damn arthropods and I JUST WANT MY AFTERNOON TEA."

Edit for HTML fail

[sofish-sasha.livejournal.com]

Aaand now I'm going to start giggling like a Took when the film gets to that bit! XD

24 hours and 27 minutes to go!

[padparadscha.livejournal.com]

I'm jealous. I gotta wait till Friday.

[sofish-sasha.livejournal.com]

I had the same response--DAMMIT JUST RELEASE A TWELVE HOUR MOVIE AND BE DONE WITH IT. But the image that won me back over was this one. He just looksso beautifully like an exasperated dad. "I go off for FIVE MINUTES and you Dwarves get kidnapped by SPIDERS. RASSERFRASSERGRUMBLE now I gotta stab a bunch of big damn arthropods and I JUST WANT MY AFTERNOON TEA."

Mind if I metaquote that? XD

Also, having seen the film now, I have no worries about there being "too little" material to stretch into three films. I think it's going to work.

And the introduction of Thorin is a perfect example of how to turn a character into a Big Damn Hero in five minutes. I think I may be a bit in love with him.

[padparadscha.livejournal.com]

Go ahead!

Is the film good? I'm intensely curious. And Thorin as a Big Damn Hero bodes well in putting to rest westrider's fears that the Dwarves will be nothing but comic relief!

[sofish-sasha.livejournal.com]

Well, I like it better than the LotR films, just as I like the book better than the books. There were quite a few funny bits (I was grinning like a loon all through the arrival of the dwarves), but it was a case of "this is a character doing something amusing" rather than "LOL, dwarves", I think. And then there were some awesomely serious bits, and epic bits, and creepy bits, and ye GODS I've got to see it again!

The annoying thing about seeing a film like this the day it opens is that I don't want to say too much, 'cos I think it's best if people get to form their own opinions. So I have to rein in my fangirling until the rest of the world has caught up. XD

[raim.livejournal.com]

Wait. I am going to admit the embarassing fact that I'm completely not up to date about the Hobbit movie (even though I read pretty much everything Tolkien has written), but they made *three* movies out of that tiny tiny short tiny book? *keels over*

[sofish-sasha.livejournal.com]

Yup. Though they've gone and added stuff from some appendix or other, and some stuff that was only mentioned in the book (like the White Council versus the Necromancer at Dol Guldur) will happen on screen instead. I presume that this is to show how the events that take place during the unexpected journey are the starting points for stuff that happens in LotR.

[raim.livejournal.com]

That seems... silly. Also, I saw the photos of the sexy dwarves now. Hmmm.

Still starting to get excited for the movie, though.

[stormteller.livejournal.com]

I started worrying about the adaptation as soon as I heard it was two films. There's not enough content in the book for two films. I'm more worried since I heard there are now three films. It looks like they're taking a lot of stuff out of the appendices and other sources to fill it out, but there are limits. Worse, I don't agree with the tone they showed with the early production materials. It looks like an action-comedy, and that's not quite what The Hobbit is.

I bet Freeman took notes on Holmes' performance, though. I'm not really worried about his portrayal, provided Peter and Fran wrote it correctly.

[padparadscha.livejournal.com]

I think it could be two films, but I'm not so sure about three. I would rather enjoy seeing some of the more obscure things up onscreen--I was totally pleased with the "dwarf women" bit in The Two Towers, because I read that section as a kid and thought, "Wait--does he mean the women have BEARDS?!" Mostly, though, I think the breaking it up has to do with dollar signs in studio execs' eyes--and I'm sensing that Peter Jackson really doesn't want this to end.

It is hard to define just WHAT The Hobbit is. It is kind of actiony, and kind of comedic, but ... yeah, I don't know. "Adventure fantasy," maybe? Or just "Completely Awesome"?

[stormteller.livejournal.com]

It could do one very long film or two short ones. But knowing Jackson they'll each be 2 1/2 hours, half of that drawn-out combat. I don't think he wanted to do three films and got pressured into it, but there's not a dearth of back-material to work with. It wouldn't be that hard to stretch The Silmarillion into a series of films, probably 4 at least.

The Hobbit is hard to categorise, largely because it predates most of the literature of its type, and that's part of what keeps it interesting to current audiences. LotR is a better example; it's the only example that I can think of offhand for an inverted fetch quest. Another thing that makes it work is that it injects an intended familiar everyman, the quintessentially-English Hobbit, into a mythical/fantasy world, in a much more seamless fashion than the more typical falling-through-a-doorway introduction used by such writers as Lewis.

[wendyzski.livejournal.com]

Yeah - I could see two, given all the backstory and Dol Guldur stuff being put back in, but I am in fear that PJ is getting his fanboy on and PUTTING IN ALL THE THINGS because he can - whether or not they make it a better film. I mean, I enjoyed King Kong but I think I would have enjoyed it more if it had been half an hour shorter.

Sometimes a Director needs someone to say "No - that's enough" to him, and he doesn't have that.

[padparadscha.livejournal.com]

I remember telling someone that King Kong would've been a better movie if every single scene was about two minutes shorter.

[wendyzski.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't say "every" but it's a valid point. There was one scene (dinosaurs stampeding through a canyon) that looked awesome but just went on and on and on....and that's what I fear we're getting into

[raim.livejournal.com]

What would you think it was, then? It definitely shouldn't be as dark or angsty as LoTR, imho. The Hobbit always seemed more of a children's book, to me.

[kt-n-dd.livejournal.com]

That article is kinda sad. That poor man seeing the commercialization and simplification of his father's complex world. But, I also really enjoyed the movies. I liked them; they moved me. And I am optimistic about The Hobbit. Martin Freeman seems to be able to play the quintessential British Man, which I feel Bilbo Baggins mostly encapsulates. And hopefully he'll convey Bilbo's depth as well. But yes, we'll just have to see.

[padparadscha.livejournal.com]

Exactly! I can't fault him at all, but I really don't agree with Christopher Tolkien.

[kt-n-dd.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I don't agree with him either. It's as though he's saying if we don't enjoy his father's world HIS WAY, we are doing it wrong and shouldn't be allowed to play at all (cue childlike stomping). And I can't agree with that. It's so rich that we can all have our piece.

[daiq.livejournal.com]

I have a friend who was at the premiere, and he said it was SPECTACULAR! Now i don't know if he is a Hobbit fanatic, and i know i am not (after years and years and years of stating it was the best book EVER, i reread it at about 27 for the first time since i was about 12 and was reminded of all my issues with Tolkien and had to keep reminding myself that this was the starting point for modern fantasy), but i am looking forward to it in a big way (even if it is dragged out into three movies).

[westrider.livejournal.com]

What I'm really worried about with regard to the Hobbit movie is the handling of the Dwarves*. I did not appreciate the use of Gimli for comic relief in TLotR, and it looks from the pics I've seen like that trend's been kicked up several notches. Especially because it's probably going to be stupid humour, instead of clever.

I'm still going to see it, of course, but I'm nervous.

*Fuck you, spellchecker. When we're talking Tolkien, that's how it's spelled.

[padparadscha.livejournal.com]

... Although to be fair, the Dwarves are something of comic relief in the books, too. Not as much, but it's there.

[westrider.livejournal.com]

In The Hobbit, to a certain extent, certainly. Gimli is pretty much just a stone badass in TLotR, tho, because Merry and Pippin were around to supply all needed comic relief.

I'm worried that, given how Gimli was treated, it's going to be taken way over the top here.

I must admit to a significant bias here, tho. Just as you call yourself a very tall Hobbit, I often refer to myself as the tallest Dwarf in America. Dwarven characters in fantasy have always resonated very strongly with me, as serious, solid characters, not goofy. Funny Dwarves can still be done, but it needs to be handled well, and I'm afraid that adjectives like goofy, zany, whacky, and madcap are going to be more appropriate here.

[padparadscha.livejournal.com]

I can totally understand. I would have liked Gimli to be a bit less goofy. (Although sometimes his snarkier comments made me laugh AND made him a badass. "He's TWITCHING because he's got MY AXE EMBEDDED IN HIS NERVOUS SYSTEM!" Totally action hero.)

I'm rather hoping part of the crazy Dwarf hair and makeup is an attempt to differentiate them from each other (since, with a few exceptions, they were sort of a conglomerate in the book). Although to me the most comical-looking are Fili and Kili--for very different reasons than the others' outright silly styles. Sexy Dwarves? REALLY?

[westrider.livejournal.com]

There were moments when it was done well. But there were also the Dwarf-tossing bits, and I seem to recall a number of points where the "humour" basically boiled down to "Look! Gimli's short/slow/otherwise having physical trouble that his description in the book was entirely counter to!" :P

Hopefully it's just for differentiation. Even so, Nori's hair frightens me.

[gwalla.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the dwarf-tossing had the feel of "that thing that happened in a roleplaying session at 2 AM that everybody who was there thought was hilarious, but whenever they try to tell anybody it falls flat."

[shadesofmauve]

The 'comic relief' bit that I remember most clearly from the Hobbit is also a bit of holy-shit-bad-ass -- the whole bit with the juggling of plates while making up a song about said juggling and how it impacts on poor Bilbo's sensibilities.

(Okay, Maybe I'm the only one who sees that as pure skill, but hey, can YOU juggle crockery and ad lib rhyming verse at the same time?)

From the little bit of that scene included in the trailer, I'm hopeful that it stays that Bilbo is the butt of that joke, not the dwarves.

I expect/hope that because there are so many dwarves they'll use comic relief vs. serious to differentiate *between* then, and humor will become a personality trait, rather than a racial one. If so, it could end up being a pretty good thing.

[westrider.livejournal.com]

Yeah, if that's done with the Dwarves being badasses while Bilbo freaks out, it's awesome. If it's done as "bumbling, but mysteriously manage not to break anything", it's frustrating.

It could be well done. I just don't have faith that it will be. Tho Sofish_Sasha's comment above gives me more hope.

And that last is also a good point. If it's used to show that (for instance) Fili and Kili are still kind of young and goof off some times, and Bombur takes a few hits about being lazy, that wouldn't bother me so much.

[shadesofmauve]

I'm hopeful that your last scenario will be the case, if only because writing it any other way would honestly be kind of *hard*. They need variety in personality or the movie would be super dull.

[sofish-sasha.livejournal.com]

The crockery juggling was awesome. :D

[westrider.livejournal.com]

Excellent to hear! This discussion has slowly been shifting me to "guardedly optimistic" :)

[padparadscha.livejournal.com]

I'm with you. Bombur is TOTALLY comic relief in the book, but it looks like Thorin is going to be pretty badass, so hopefull this is just showing the many Dwarf personalities.

I was always pretty impressed with the crockery-juggling, too. That takes some skill.