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[bloodyrosemccoy]

Finally got around to seeing Star Trek: Into Darkness. Don't laugh. Sometimes things get in the way.

-I realize they're a dead horse at this point, but dammit I never get tired of redshirt jokes. Especially the one where (I think?) the nameless guys who had to take their red shirts off survived their away mission.

-I WANTED MORE KLINGONS.

-Dear Karl Urban: are you actually DeForest Kelley?

-I love that the soundtrack is still a raving fanboy. OMG EVERYBODY THIS IS A STAR TREK MOVIE AND I AM THE SOUNDTRACK! I AM SO EXCITED FOR THIS I MIGHT JUST DIE

-Khan is still a lame villain. There, I said it.

Comments

[westrider.livejournal.com]

I like the idea of Khan as a character, but he hasn't really been done well yet.

Other than that, I am in 100% agreement with your points, but would also add the look on Chekhov's face when Kirk tells him to put on a red shirt ;)

[padparadscha.livejournal.com]

I loved how they consciously made that a DUN DUN DUNNNN! moment, too. (That fell under the heading of Redshirt Jokes, but I am so glad I'm not the only one who just about fell over laughing at it.)

[dinogrrl.livejournal.com]

lol agreed. I need to find a CD of the soundtrack. It knows how awesome it is and how awesome Star Trek is and it's not afraid to show it.

And yeah, I never thought Khan was as great of a villain as the rest of the world does. But I do love Cumberbatch's voice, I could listen to it all day even if he's playing Khan.

[padparadscha.livejournal.com]

The previous installment's end credit track is painfully funny just for that.

He does have a lovely voice, yes.

[cjtremlett.livejournal.com]

Things I loved about that movie
- Uhura and Spock fighting and Kirk's reaction
- Uhura speaking Klingon
- Chekov's reaction to the red shirt
- Sulu taking command
- Scotty getting drunk
- when Khan said Spock couldn't break bone and you knew full well he'd be breaking some of Khan's by the end
- the reversal of the Wrath of Khan moment of sacrifice and how that made sense (I could go on at length but my theory is that Kirk and Spock especially but really all of them are going through the same character arcs as the originals, only doing it much faster, as triggered by the differences caused by the point of time-line divergence)
- Spock Prime's cameo
- and absolutely anything with Bones in it! Karl Urban is just brilliant and so outstandingly good in that part! I've read that his performance made Leonard Nimoy cry when they were filming the first of the reboot movies. Of course, Karl Urban is a complete geek. He gets it.

[padparadscha.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I remember hearing that about Urban and Nimoy. (Admittedly, it made ME giggle like an idiot. And now I can't watch The Two Towers without thinking "Dammit, Jim, I'm a horseman, not a politician!") The first reboot nearly killed me with him--I still love the part where he has to chase Kirk down to vaccinate him. (It's entierly possible that was another original series callback--there's an episode that's sort of a retconned payoff of that whole scene. There's this real casual moment where Bones is lurking just off the turbolift, and Jim steps off the lift and Bones casually tears off Jim's sleeve and blasts him with a hypospray and they just carry on without breaking stride or even mentioning it. It cracks me the fuck up every time. I laugh just THINKING about it.)

I did like the reversal of the sacrifice (I liked "This is what YOU would have done." Jim is not subtle), although the angry Khan yell was a bit much. It didn't make me cry like the original always does (shut up), but Spock's Single Manly/Vulcanly Tear got me close.

One thing I did miss from the orignal was that, even though Spock had a pretty excellent solution to Khan's little Mexican standoff, they didn't get to do the cool moment where they realize he's got some outdated battle tactics. The rest of Wrath of Khan up till that point is kind of rubbish, but I really liked the 3D chess payoff.

I think even Uhura's Klingon was a bit of an homage to the alterna-timeline, since at one point in I think movie 6 Original Flavor Uhura had to do some fast-talking in Klingon and, dictionary flipping notwithstanding, managed a pretty decent job at it. Either way, Hell yeah, Uhura speaking Klingon. Zoe Saldana is shaping up to be a--polyconglot? Multiconlingual? Anyway, it is awesome.

Spock Prime's response to "Have you ever run into a guy named Khan?" was priceless. His face just goes "Oh, shit, Khan. I HATE that guy." And he's all "I can't tell you anything that might reveal your future or make a bigger mess of the timeline than I already have, but seriously, FUCK THAT GUY."

Have you read Redshirts? Please tell me you've read Redshirts.

[prodigal.livejournal.com]

If they had Spock hiss Khan's name instead of howling it, that scene would have worked.

[padparadscha.livejournal.com]

Totally.

[cjtremlett.livejournal.com]

Of course I've read Redshirts! Love Scalzi!

I did tear up at Kirk's sacrifice, but not anywhere near what I did the first time I saw Wrath of Khan, or even as much as I do any time I watch that movie.

Loved Spock Prime's non-commentary on Khan! I can't describe my reaction when he showed up on screen. Bouncing and squeeing (but trying not to be too loud) - they'd said that Nimoy wasn't going to be in this one, and kept that as a surprise. I was pretty damn sure by the time the movie came out that Cumberbatch was playing Khan, alias not withstanding.

I really hope they do something different with the inevitable next movie, though. No old villains. Or specific old villains. Klingons and/or Romulans would be good. I keep hoping they're going to do something with the Romulans and the few surviving Vulcans. Spock Prime in his original timeline was working towards reunification between the Vulcans and the Romulans. With so few Vulcans left, it would make a lot of sense for them to seek some sort of reconciliation with the Romulans. They are the same species. I don't remember how long it's supposed to be that they split off, but not long enough for them to become that different genetically. I don't know if I've seen a figure for how many Vulcans are left, but if it's a small enough number for them to worry about the gene pool, the Romulans would be the logical source for help with that.

[padparadscha.livejournal.com]

Everything I read by Scalzi just makes me unbearably happy. He has the best damn metahumor ever.

Speaking of the speeded-up timeline, one of the movie's writers (I think it was Orci or Kurtzmann) had a pretty cool analysis of the other reversal in the sacrifice scene. In essence he said that the impact in Wrath of Khan because you were seeing two guys saying goodbye after years of deep friendship; in Into Darkness the impact came from Spock realizing that Kirk was his friend, and his revelation came too late. I thought that was a great way to sum it up.

(I also liked their comment on Leonard Nimoy. "Isn't he retired?" "Yeah. He's the hardest-working retired guy we know.)

I like your Romulan/Vulcan idea! Maybe Spock can make peace in this universe. Though honestly, I would be happy with more Klingons. Klingons are fun. They use silly swords and wear rivets and studs and eat live worms and fly Birds of Prey and bleed strawberry jam! And they're always angry. What's not to love?

[cjtremlett.livejournal.com]

I'd be happy with Klingons if they do a different story! Don't retread the same ground that we've seen before in previous movies or TV shows. There's plenty of things they can do with Klingons that would be really different and exciting, but I worry that if they do them, it's going to wind up as a montage of previous Klingon stories.

Part of the thing of the sacrifice originally was tied to the Kobayashi Maru - Kirk cheated and never really faced the no-win situation until the point where he couldn't save Spock. (Not that he hadn't lost people before, but he'd always gotten out of situations one way or another and this time he couldn't.) In this version, he accepts that it's no-win for him but not his ship, not his friends. I suspect original Kirk would have preferred to have been the one to die rather than lose Spock. This one was in the position to make that choice.

[padparadscha.livejournal.com]

Yeah, there's always the possibility that they will just start retreading. But the Klingons are such a gold mine of interesting storylines that I really hope they don't do that (although I totally hope there is a Klingons vs. Tribbles joke in there somewhere.)

Your summation of Kirk's choices seems pretty spot-on. Maybe the original timeline echoes back to him, because one of the things that was so interesting about the original is how Spock just quietly strolls off to do his job, and Kirk doesn't even realize he's gone till it's too late. I know he has no way to know how it went the other time, but there was a definite "Not THIS time, assholes!" sense when he made his choice.

And I just want to add that I forgot to say earlier--Sulu taking charge was exciting. I was half-expecting a teacup and saucer to make an appearance near The Chair ...

[cjtremlett.livejournal.com]

Oh, there has to be a Klingons vs. Tribbles joke! One thing this reboot is good for is those small in-jokes!

I wonder how much this Kirk thinks about the other time-line Kirk. He knows that his father lived to see him become a starship captain in the other time-line. He knows Kirk & Spock were very close in that time-line. He wasn't there when Spock asked Spock-Prime about Khan, and I suspect he tends to not dwell on the alternative, but I wonder how much he thinks about it.

And I loved how John Cho pulled that bit with Sulu off. He said it was the first time he'd taken the command chair and the hesitation showed, and then boom, he turns on the confidence and threat when it's needed. It works, awesomely!

[gwalla.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't mind other old villains, but after two movies in a row they really need to stop mining Wrath Of Khan for material. I want some Mudd or some Gamesters of Triskelion or some damn thing that doesn't have jack to do with that one admittedly good movie.

Hell, I'd even take V'ger if they could pull it off. (They wouldn't be able to pull it off)

[cjtremlett.livejournal.com]

I keep wanting a "Wrath of Mudd" movie!
Who would you cast as Mudd?
You meaning whoever wants to answer!

[padparadscha.livejournal.com]

They made a Mudd joke in the film--they confiscated that trading ship during the "Mudd incident." I guess the prequel comic has some more references.

Aside from the Klingons, I want to see less villainy and more of the other bits of the show--I'd love to see some stuff with the Horta. And I admit, I'm curious to see how they'd handle an "Amok Time" storyline Given that the Vulcan population is so small at this point, that could be interesting.