bloodyrosemccoy | When War Is Justified

Whenever I stop to think about WWII - really think - it totally blows my mind. I cannot fathom it.

There seems to be something quite nasty buried deep in human nature.

What blows my mind is when I think of it and I know there are people out there who don't believe it ever happened, or who say 'genocide' should not be applied to it.

I am always amazed at the ability of people to deny truth when it is staring them in the face...

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I'm pretty sure aliens are pretty sick of having everything blamed on them.

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My school here in France has a sort of reputation for, in the past, supporting Holocaust denial. Pretty much everyone agrees that it is over now -- that the people propogating such ideas have been found out and fired from their positions (and jailed because in France there are things you aren't allowed to say -- they have mostly free speech but not entirely, and one thing you can't say is to claim that the Holocaust didn't happen.)

Part of the reason I chose to study here is to see what there was, to see if any skeletons would pop out of the closet, you know. So far I've learned that it is true, there were scandals about this, but some people say the press made it seem like a bigger deal -- that maybe there was one or two psychos on in the fac but that the press made it seem like everyone supported them. I don't know what is true about that, though. I hope to find out.

I just don't know how anyone could not believe it happened. After all the trials and testimony and witnesses and survivors, not to mention the piles of bodies and the PHOTOGRAPHS -- so many photographs -- I can't believe we have these scandals about denial of the Holocaust because it is so very obvious that it happened 0.0

I'm terrible with holidays -- er, holiday isn't the right word, but like a national day, I guess -- LOL in Russian I can say praznik and that sort-of means what I want to say. But, you know... I usually observe Holocaust rememberance day as Yom Ha Shoah, so is this also Yom Ha Shoah or not, because if it is I'll feel stupid for not knowing 0.0

I actually know better, as commemorative holidays for wwII -- May 8th and 9th, as Victory Day in Europe and Victory Day in Russia, respectively. But, I should know when Holocaust rememberance day is 0.0 Does your calander say when it is celebrated in Israel?

It seems a bit strange for me, though, to think of one day on which we have our thoughts about all of that. I mean people suffered and struggled and died every day for years and years, it seems strange to pinpoint one day and be like, 'we'll commemorate it today.' It makes sense to celebrate victory days, but to remember something that went on for years with a single day is strange. I, for one, probably think about wwII at least once every day but we all know how I am sort of obsessed with it. I wouldn't say it is necessary to be as so tied to the past as I am, but I think it should ideally be a constant consciousness rather than the sort of thing you can commemmorate in a day a year.

Actually I read an article in which the French want to maybe stop celebrating Nov 11th (Armistice Day of the first world war) and May 8th and wanna instead make a new holiday for like 'world peace and concordance day' and that really would upset me if it came to pass. we have to remember the wars!

Of course, constant thoughts on wwII should make one a more ... tolerant person, I suppose. I guess I fail at that because I get more and more afraid of Germans, Austrians, and Poles as times go by and I think the point is to become more understanding of people, not less. 0.0

Yeah I think I'm just rambling. when *is* Yom Ha Shoah? I think it's in the spring but I could be wrong because maybe I get it confused with Yom ha Zikkaron -- Israeli Memorial Day.

Yom HaShoah is the 27th of Nisan, seven days after Yom ha Zikkaron. This is not Yom HaShoah.

We have to remember the wars, but we must also remember to stop new wars.

Yeah, okay thanks. (Seven days after Yom ha Zikkaron? Hmmm, strange, maybe it's when summer already started in my Hebrew school when I was a kid, that's why I don't remember the date so well.) Do you know if there's a reason they chose that date for Yom Ha Shoah? Like what is the significance of 27 Nissan?

Yeah, I don't really know how anyone could stop wars, I mean indirectly we can avoid electing presidents like Bush who start wars for no reason, but sometimes things blow up between nations that maybe can't be stopped. Maybe the only way to prevent such conflicts is to remember the previous ones and make children enough afraid of the atrocities that happened to be so afraid of conflict that when they grew up they wouldn't ever fight, but I don't know if that is possible. I have really no idea how people can ever stop having wars :(

Yesterday my rabbi gave an interesting speech -- I guess the parasha is about the story of Passover and he was saying -- quoting someone, I believe, how we can never trust Egypt, that Israel can never trust Egypt as an ally. According to him, it is only huge sums of money paid by the US to Egypt every year keeping Egypt from attacking Israel. That seems really extreme to me but perhaps it is true. My friends were all looking at me, wondering if I knew something, but just because I'm American doesn't mean I know! In any event, it's so complicated because on one hand it seems so wrong to say something so blunt as 'never trust Egypt' (or 'never trust Germany,' as I hear more often.) Then again, if we do decide to give these people the benefit of the doubt and trust them maybe they will hurt us again. So although peace and understanding would be ideal I have no idea how it could ever happen :(.

Sorry, I was wrong. Yom HaShoah is eight days before Isreali Independance Day. They were going to hold YomHaShoah on the 15th of Nisan (Warsaw Ghetto uprising) but that is the first day of Pesach.

The only way to promote peace and end war is to approach each person as a person, free of all other demarkations. If we understand that we are all indeed equals then peace can be attained. An important way to do that is to learn about what atrocities happened before - not to fear them, because that is also damaging, but to come to terms with and go beyond that darkness.

On the other hand, I think human nature is such that we will never be free of war. But we should still reach for this ideal.

I think saying things like "Germany can never be trusted" is a dangerous generalization, and puts too much emphasis on the assumption that countries act like some sort of hive mind, all in unison. I'm pretty sure that Egypt isn't attacking Isreal because right now that would be incredibly stupid - you know, like the U.S. attacking Iran or Syria with our military already stretched so thin. :/

Ahh. I should probably unroll the yearlong calander my synagogue gave me and check when that is in the secular calander, but I feel lazy right now. now I kind of, to make up for my ignorance, want to make a list of important -- positive -- wwII dates, like the victory days and liberation of here and there and that kind of thing. would be good to know. (Or, I could go to the Resistance museum here -- it's literally down the block from my apartment -- with a clipboard and copy things down ... :P) I'll put it on my list to do. I become more and more obsessed with the French Resistance -- things about wwII are so dark that I have to think of those brave people who struggled and suffered so much to liberate their country and, unlike the Jews, had a choice not to get involved but involved themselves anyhow. (I have a poster of Jean Moulin :)...)

Yeah, it's odd because I really thought I was an enlightened modern young person who saw beyond that kind of thing -- then, for instance, I met some German girl this year at school and we talked and were friendly for a few weeks, then, just as we started becoming friends and not just acquaintances I ... I couldn't continue, I kept thinking -- what would she say if she knows I'm Jewish? what were her ancestors doing in the war...? And she'd be teaching us all words in German and I felt all uncomfortable when I ever heard them, so ... I just drifted away from her. I don't think she knows my reaction -- like we saw each other last week, randomly met at the fac and talked for a minute and she was perfectly pleasant and friendly, but I feel guilty for ... not wanting to be her friend. Although I'd never be in favor of a war or anything like that, I guess I'm not ... really capable to further peace and understanding! I hope that my eventual kids aren't like me in this
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Yeah, it'd be nice if Egypt wasn't attacking Israel because they wanted peace, not because it would be stupid to attack, but who knows. And, yeah, American military 0.0 ... there's almost a part of me that wants Bush to do something so stupid that people will realize we need a drastic change but I shudder to think exactly what something that dumb would entail... :(

we are chatting a lot in Amelia's journal, aren't we? Do you want to friend each other? How do you know Amelia, by the way? I'm a student at U of O (only now I'm in France...) and we met there last year. :)

Yes, we are! I think we should friend each other. :)

I am a student at Lane CC right now, and I met Amelia briefly at Japan Night at U of O last year! We exchanged LJs. You are in France! How very cool!

Hm, it may also help that many of my relatives speak Swiss German. Also in America WWII seems much farther away. I think despite my big words I may also have uncomfortable in that situation, with the nice girl from Germany. When I was on a train from Denmark to Switzerland the train stopped briefly at night in Germany, and hearing the officials speak in loud German outside our train window set us a bit on edge.

Sometimes when I need hope for humanity I look towards Denmark's actions during WWII.

I think people are starting to realize that Bush really is willing to do something drastically stupid, and that people are starting to make changes. I just hope that we will be fast enough!

yay, ok I friended you :) waiting for you to friend me back :)

Nice! Yeah, I'm in France, currently on a year of exchange. I also studied in France 2 yrs ago for 4 months and prior to that one month three years ago. I hope to move to France when I graduate. Next year I hope to spend 4 months in Russia. I also spent one month in Russia last summer. My ability to speak English is falling apart as you probably could tell from my word choice in comments 0.0

Yeah, I'm all Russian (Jewish) myself so I don't have anyone in my family who speaks German. (Being Russian doesn't help with fear of Germans either -- they don't like each other much!) I actually visited Austria last fall to see a friend -- she's Bulgarian, and it was the worst weekend I spent in my life -- not half of it because it was Austria -- actually it was mostly because she had some family problems she neglected to tell me about before I came and she was fighting with her mom and crying on the phone to her boyfriend the whole time -- but also it was very uncomfortable for me there in Vienna hearing everyone speak German -- and I realized that I felt 'protected' by the fact that my friend was Bulgarian, not Austrian herself ... and it was a bad experience 0.0

You've been to Denmark? awesome. I want to go!!

Yeah, my parents went to Denmark and saw some museums about the war and were very impressed. I know some but I'd like to learn more. (So, I should go to Denmark! I've got a friend in Finland who offered me the next time I visit a short trip to another country but while Sweden and Estonia are near enough I doubt Denmark is...)

Ugh Bush. Are things changing? I only really know liberals in the US LOL so I haven't much of a gauge on political opinions.

I've friended you now!

Well, things are changing in that we (the Democrats, bweeheehee) have a majority in the House and Senate - which is most definitely a good sign.

I'm half Danish and Jewish, so I have a lots of family in Denmark and Switzerland. On my dad's side of the family I have some Russian also!

I hope someday to do a year of exchange in Europe. It seems very cool. Too bad that the Austria trip did not work out so well.

Yeah, Denmark has some very good war museums! I suggest looking into some books about it first, but I'm not sure where to start.

I would be careful of blaming one person for the actions of others. One of the impediments to peace is to hold grudges for things other people have done, especially if these other people did it in a long-past setting. There are cultural ideals and holdovers, but those are fading now, and you must always remember that each person within a culture has their own interpretation.

I've had weirder reasons for drifting away from people, though, so maybe it wasn't just that. You never know.

Yeah ... I always feel guilty about my fears of other people ... but I guess in my defense if I ever try to ... become less biased someone I know will give me a lecture on how you can't trust x or you can't forget y. I think it happens though, slowly. I'm much more accepting than my grandparents, for instance... 0.0 They don't seem to like anyone who isn't Jewish!

Yeah ... I dunno. I just know that being scared of her -- which I guess i'd managed to suppress, suddenly rose up in my mind and was like, hey you can't be friends with her! 0.0

I've visited Auschwitz. Some people say they don't hear birds singing there. I did. But it was a warm July day outside, and inside the camp it was cold. Something there will never forget.

I firmly believe that anyone who is, or who has any pretentions of becoming, a national leader (of any nation, and not necessarily the top rank, but anyone in the close line of succession) should visit at the very least Auschwitz and Hiroshima.

Thanks for the warm welcome home! :) I hope to keep up with LJ more often now that I have a more flexible schedule.I'm hoping that the work-from-home situation lasts. It's really nice to have such a flexible schedule and to be putting my "would-you-like-fries-with that" English major to really good, interesting use! That said, it's harrowing to research and compile a calendar of Bushisms. You honestly don't know whether to laugh or cry.

It's sad that we need reminding that fascism and genocide exist, and even sadder that there are conspiracy theorists who try to convince people that catastrophes like the Holocaust never happened. My father is Jewish, as is the rest of his family, and it's humbling to know that I have relatives in my family tree who were murdered so heinously.

In a world where privacy is whittled away one Patriot Act at a time and people's cell phones are practically fused to their ears, we're not so far away from a 1984-esque, totalitarian society as we think we are.

In lighter news, let us pause and remember the dearly departed Thomas Crapper...and Mozart, too.

I'm in a play about the Holocaust right now. It's a really hard hitting, heavy production that really means a me. It's called "I Never Saw Another Butterfly." And it's about a little girl and her experience in the Terezin Ghetto. It's an amazing play, and what our director did with it is absolutely brilliant. Backstage the cast cries throughout the whole thing, and there is absolutely sound from the audience as they watch this.

The director gave us an assignment in one of our rehearsals to go on a computer and look up the word "Holocaust" and then half way through the rehearsal he stopped us and said, "Now look up the word Genocide." We did, and were very impacted by this. So, we decided that all of the proceeds of our play would go to www.savedarfur.com

I guess to all of us, it makes our play meaningful, and raises awareness, so that something as awful as the Holocaust won't happen again. You should contribute to the cause too.

When War Is Justified

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